Project shottys
 

First up is a low round count 1953 Take-down Model 12 (can be re-assembled in <10 seconds) with 6+1 capacity, tamed somewhat by pro-porting as done by Magna-Port. Full length stock has been re-finished and is getting a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. Next on the agenda is getting a new front bead, getting it parked, a sling (modifying a buttstock bolt for the pistol grip), and a green laser. Beefy, rock solid uber reliable pump shotgun.

Re: Project shottys
 

Ive been wanting a good shotgun... Ive seen used Mossberg 500's for 200 bucks at the store, anyone know a good shotgun that I can purchase for about 150?

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Id go with the used mossberg for 200 if it is not in bad shape. Nothing wrong with used.

Might look at used mossber maverick 88's which are essentialy identical to the mossberg 500. If you are seeing 500's for $200, the 88's should be lower.

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I got a used Maverick 88 for free a while ago.....guys basement flooded and it was so rusted up you could not even work the slide.....I tore it apart, sanded and steel wooled it down to bare metal and re-blued it with a cold-bluing solution for about $8.....looks great now!

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=545

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=544

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=543

Moral to the story....anyone can reblue a shotgun....so even some old ugly used thing can be made nice again.

The flash photo does not give the best results.....it is a fairly dark blue in reality. Better than I thought it would be....

Note - the receiver is anodized aluminum - so very black in comparison.

I think the Maverick 88 is a fine low cost shotgun (I'm a Rem 870 fan...I think I have 7 of 'em....) - the Maverick can use all barrel and stock parts from a Mossberg 500. The trigger group is not interchangable....the Mav 88 has a standard trigger guard button safety.

Fixing up old stuff is fun and educational....and when it is done - it is yours...it has your sweat/effort in it...and when you use it you will remember where it came from....anyone can buy brand spankin' new....I like new but love good used stuff.

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Very nice my friend, very nice indeed.

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In my area, you can pick up a used 870 Wingmaster for 150 if you keep your eyes open. They're more like 200 now, but I find a bargain every now and again.

Any beater 870 Wingmaster is hands down better than any new product by Jamsburg.:thumpdown

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The 870 was introduced in 1950, so it's had an even longer production run than JMB's venerable Model 12. Should be plenty of beater 870s waiting for some TLC if one simply looks around.

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I thought the Mdl 12 was introduced in 1912.

I know my dad had one in the 30's-40's and I still have it. I think.

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You're right, the Model 12 was introduced in 1912. It was discontinued in 1962 due to the cost of manufacture (a 50 year continuous production run). Sometime in the late '50s in an effort to lower the production costs Winchester introduced a 'featherweight' model (although it remained all steel) where they eliminated the take-down feature. Even then they couldn't compete with the likes of Remington. After 1962 Winchester did have a few limited production series Model 12s.

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I confess - I'm a pump shotgun fan....in fact I only own pump shotguns....mostly Rem 870....a few other brands as well....but I also have 4 of the Model 12 Browning design. Starting in 1912 Winchester produced this shotgun....never sold under Browning name (until 1980's - limited run)

The Browning designed Model 12 is a beautiful machine - it is the really the corner stone design of all modern pumps. Win produced them into the early 60's. In the early and mid 1980's both Browning and Winchester contracted an outfit in Japan to build very limited production runs of the model 12 in 28 ga and 20 ga.....Browning also had them make a limited run of the Model 42 (the smaller .410 version of the model 12). I think they only mad like 5000 of each guage....not too many. You can still find these brand new in the box for just under $1000....and they are well worth it.....they are the most beautiful pumps ever made and are superior to the originals. I do not care for the fancy Grade 5 guns with heavy engraving and inlay gold...they are beautiful ...but not for me....so I just went with the grade 1....field grade....the wood and bluing are out of this world. In my opinion....$1000 is not much for a gun...not even 1 ounce of gold! If I were looking for a nice shot gun (not an 870 in the rough express grade finish) - but something like a new 870 Wingmaster or a Browning BPS...these cost around $500 - 600 new....I'd step it up to perhaps $800-900 and get a 1980's limited production Browning Model 12 in 20 ga. The Winchester reproductions are very hard to find and will top well over $1000.

Nothing like going out and shooting a round of skeet with a 20 ga pump on the doubles station.....feels so good to just crush the birds while running the action....a guy with an autoloader or an over/under will never experience this...or ever have the skill to do it......over/unders look stupid - why drag around 2 barrels (unless it is a classic side by side double). Autos are for chicks or people that like malfunctions.

Pumps are big time OLD SCHOOL.....and so am I!!!!

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I agree and double agree abothe s/s. Sadly I let mine get away from me.

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Ruprick,

You've got a point on the pumps. I only have pumps as well, 12ga's. My father in law and I do skeet and trap so of course since I only have pumps, thats what I gotta use.

Hes got some real nice autoloaders, brownings, remingtons, the whole nine yards. BUt they REALLY dont like birdshot at all. They wont cycle back. I've never had that problem with my pump :ok:

Skeet is a little difficult for me, Im fairly novice when it comes to skeet/trap. I havent even attempted the 5 stand(or whatever the one is where the clays come from all over the place and along the ground). But I'd imagine with a pump its gotta be a helluva time.

I get a LOT of weird looks out there with my mossberg maverick pump action. All these people with their fance $4k over unders popping clay after clay. And here I come in with my plain jane sub $300 pump action. Im not great, but I can hold my own and make them think twice about giving me those nasty, gun snob looks.

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Stick with the pump in skeet - you will get better.....and it is great to be able to score the same as some guy with his $2000 over/under and you have a used $200 Mossberg. Plus - pumps are simply fun.

It's kind of like flying tailwheel/tail dragger aircraft....not many will ever do it these days - in its day it was called "Conventional Gear" and now it is very unconventional - 99% of the pilots will never learn how to do it. It's a little bit tricky at first but you get better with time. Different is fun.

I know a lot of guys have autos and love them....but you can do the same thing with a pump (better in reliability) for way less money. When I see autoloaders in the field I think poor choice....and when some fancy pants guy has an over under I instantly think more $ than brains.....both are poor value and in my opinion a poor choice in extreme weather (autoloader)....and they are both heavy.....my favorite field gun for rabbit and pheasant is my very first pump - the Remington 870 Wingmaster Light Weight Magnum 20 ga my dad bought me when I turned 16. In its day- it was unique in that it chambered 3" mag loads....same payload as a 12 ga.....the all steel gun weighs just 5 lbs.

Go duck or goose hunting - all you need is an 870 12ga in Super Mag (3.5 in shells)....they come in matte black + synthetic for probably mid $300 these days. The other guy will have some Italian made Beretta or Benelli 12 auto or Browning Auto in perhaps even 10ga - they all cost 3X - 5X the Rem pump and do nothing better.

BTW: if you are waterfowl hunting and restricted to non-lead shot. The best and most expensive loads are Hevi-Shot.....a 10ga with Hevi-Shot has no more payload than the 12ga. .....so why bother with the 10ga. Browning autoloader that cost nearly $1500.

Be proud to show up with your economical pump.....and to spice it up have a nice new (1985 new) Model 12 - pratically out of production for the past 50+ years...the most classic shotgun ever made in my opinion.....anyone can go out and buy a new over/under for skeet. And when you are cranking that forearm pump and crushing that clay....they know old school is in session.....when the guns are put away and you are loading them into the back of your old pickup....crack open a Pabst Blue Ribbon....they'll probably think you invented a time machine and traveled forward 50 years!

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Whatever floats your boat. Pumps are nice but there are so many awesome shotguns I would be missing out on if I only collected pumps.
I like semi auto's, and have no problem with shells failing to cycle or other malfunctions. A good synthetic semi is great for bad weather hunting or sitting in a duck blind. The Benelli ultra light I have carries and points better than some of the finest double guns.
A fancy O/U has it's place too. I wouldn't take one on hunts where it's going to get beat up though. My next shotgun is probably going to be a Merkel 20ga. SXS. Once I can manage to save up 6K+.

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Oh, dont get me wrong, I like autoloaders too. There are plenty of fine shot guns in all types out there. I wouldnt turn away a fance over under if some one gave one to me, but Im not goign to out and buy one just to shoot skeet socialy.

Id really like to pick up a saiga 12 or 20 and a beneli m4 tactical :)

Pumps just have a place in my heart is all.

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Pumps are great, like I said in my other post, i'd really like a Ithaca M37 28ga.
Nothing wrong with shooting skeet with a pump.

Serious competition skeeters shoot those expensive over and unders for a reason. They win with them, and they are meant to take thousands & thousands of shells. Most of the stocks are measured to fit from the factory and the barrels are usually 30"+ Perazzi & Krieghoff guns are out of my league. I'm all about hunting anyway. Not much into skeet. Might shoot a few rounds right before quail season but that's about it.

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Perused the local classified ads a few minutes ago since I'm currently sans-shotgun. A pre-1964 Model 12 listed for 395OBO. Is she worth investigating? The only 12 gauge I've owned is an 870.

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That price is inline with what you'd expect to pay for a Model 12, so long as it's not worn out. Once the bolt is worn out though then it's worthless as they are no 'new' replacement bolts available. I asked my gunsmith about this concern, and he said, "Yes, that's a common problem on the Model 12, but you'll never wear it out in your lifetime - that issue is a result of an early Model 12 being shot heavily over several generations." So be advised, and inspect it very carefully for heavy use. Don't bother with it if it's sloppy. I happened to luck out and find one that had only had few box of shells run through it (like no more than 2 or 3 boxes) and had been sitting in a closet its entire life. Got it for 425.

That one you're talking about I would definitely look into. May be a sleeper like the one I found. I suggest that before you take a look at it get the serial number from the seller (if he's reluctant to to this, tell him that you want to look up the year of manufacture and he can leave off the last two digits) and look up the year of manufacture on the 'net (readily available).

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Depends on what you want....even older used Mod 12 bring too much money in my mind. If I was spending $400....I'd add a few more and buy a brand new 870 Wingmaster...very nice looking guns.

If you just want a functional 870...drop down to the Express Grade 870 for a little over $300....sometimes you can even get a combo with shot barrel and a slug barrel for under $400.

We have Bass Pro Shops around here - last week they had their fall hunting classic sales paper .......Rem 870 Express Combo = Vent Rib Shot BBL with screw in chokes + Rifle sighted fully rifled bbl = $440 after rebate. 870 Express with just shot bbl (Rem Choke) = $280 post rebate. 870 Supermag (3.5" chamber) = $330 post rebate.

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There're good reasons the Model 12 commands a premium, one of them being that it lacks a disconnector which makes it extremely fast under stressfire. Which is why it was the preferred pump shotgun in the 'nam, and not the 870. The take-down feature makes it very handy to stuff into a pack - can't do that with an 870 and re-assemble it in under 10 seconds.

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Thanks, folks for the response. I talked to the gentleman a few minutes ago. He got the gun in trade for some other goods/services some time ago and doesn't use it. He says he prefers 20ga. The serial number suggests its a 1929 model year. The guy was nice on the phone and sounded pretty knowledgable...said the bluing is worn and he didn't want to reblue it for fear of ruining it.

There's somebody on their way to go look at it right now, but I'm calling him as soon as I'm headed out of the office. Any tips on how to tell if the bolt is headed for greener pastures?

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If it is the "trombone" feature that is the draw you can often find a used Ithaca for less money than a Model 12.

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Lots of John Browning designed all steel Savages out there too, for even less money. Got three of them around the place made from the 20s-50s and the most I paid for one is $70.